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	<title>Comments on: The Thing to Read This Weekend is: &#8220;Bitter Pill&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/</link>
	<description>Everything About Money You Were Too Polite To Ask</description>
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		<title>By: orejitasmiamor</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/#comment-36552</link>
		<dc:creator>orejitasmiamor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 03:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=24020#comment-36552</guid>
		<description>@Kokuanani Schwartz@facebook I know it is not the same thing, but a book by the name of &quot;The Healing of America&quot; by T.R. Reid is about pre-Obamacare healthcare in the US as compared to other countries. A fast and interesting read. Our system is a mess, and there are a lot of reasons for that aside from the free-market and for-profit insurance companies aspects. If you want to read an old but respectable book on that subject, check out &quot;The Social Transformation of American Medicine&quot; by Paul Starr. You will never look at the AMA the same again. 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kokuanani Schwartz@facebook I know it is not the same thing, but a book by the name of &#8220;The Healing of America&#8221; by T.R. Reid is about pre-Obamacare healthcare in the US as compared to other countries. A fast and interesting read. Our system is a mess, and there are a lot of reasons for that aside from the free-market and for-profit insurance companies aspects. If you want to read an old but respectable book on that subject, check out &#8220;The Social Transformation of American Medicine&#8221; by Paul Starr. You will never look at the AMA the same again.</p>
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		<title>By: Kokuanani Schwartz@facebook</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/#comment-36380</link>
		<dc:creator>Kokuanani Schwartz@facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 05:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=24020#comment-36380</guid>
		<description>Why wasn&#039;t this article written before/during the &quot;debate&quot; that resulted in Obamacare?

Perhaps single payer wouldn&#039;t have been taken off the table by Obama in his deal with the insurance companies &amp; drug manufacturers.

Perhaps &quot;reimportation&quot; of drugs from Canada -- resulting in lower prices -- would have been supported.

Perhaps allowing Medicare to bargain with drug companies for lower prices would have been allowed.

All sorts of good provisions that never made it in to legislation because there was insufficient knowledge and concern over how bad our medical &quot;system&quot; really is.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why wasn&#8217;t this article written before/during the &#8220;debate&#8221; that resulted in Obamacare?</p>
<p>Perhaps single payer wouldn&#8217;t have been taken off the table by Obama in his deal with the insurance companies &#038; drug manufacturers.</p>
<p>Perhaps &#8220;reimportation&#8221; of drugs from Canada &#8212; resulting in lower prices &#8212; would have been supported.</p>
<p>Perhaps allowing Medicare to bargain with drug companies for lower prices would have been allowed.</p>
<p>All sorts of good provisions that never made it in to legislation because there was insufficient knowledge and concern over how bad our medical &#8220;system&#8221; really is.</p>
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		<title>By: blueblazes</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/#comment-36348</link>
		<dc:creator>blueblazes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 23:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=24020#comment-36348</guid>
		<description>I work in &quot;nonprofit&quot; health care and was pretty much engrossed by the article when I read it yesterday. For all that I am personally benefiting from the system right now, I hope that more people make it through all 20,000 words and force us to change. If I told you how much money my boss makes, you would vomit into your keyboards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work in &#8220;nonprofit&#8221; health care and was pretty much engrossed by the article when I read it yesterday. For all that I am personally benefiting from the system right now, I hope that more people make it through all 20,000 words and force us to change. If I told you how much money my boss makes, you would vomit into your keyboards.</p>
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		<title>By: sony_b</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/#comment-36327</link>
		<dc:creator>sony_b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 22:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=24020#comment-36327</guid>
		<description>@Lorelei@twitter Yeah, I see what Ash@Work is saying, but it all amounts to fraud anyway.  

IMHO things that should not be for-profit (or &quot;nonprofit&quot; in the case here) - schools, jails, basic medical and dental care.  The people who work for those institutions should be well paid.  The government should provide those basic services to everyone by way of taxes.  Anybody who wants to start a for-profit hospital, jail, school, is welcome to.  But those services should be available to all as a part of living in a civilized society. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lorelei@twitter Yeah, I see what Ash@Work is saying, but it all amounts to fraud anyway.  </p>
<p>IMHO things that should not be for-profit (or &#8220;nonprofit&#8221; in the case here) &#8211; schools, jails, basic medical and dental care.  The people who work for those institutions should be well paid.  The government should provide those basic services to everyone by way of taxes.  Anybody who wants to start a for-profit hospital, jail, school, is welcome to.  But those services should be available to all as a part of living in a civilized society.</p>
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		<title>By: sony_b</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/#comment-36325</link>
		<dc:creator>sony_b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 21:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=24020#comment-36325</guid>
		<description>A decade ago I received a 30k bill for a four hour stay - outpatient surgery to replace a defective implant in my abdomen.  I had to sue Allergan (makers of the implant) to pay for it.  They paid 6k and the hospital was fine with that.  The hospital would not negotiate with me.  On my bill was a $35 box of kleenex that I never touched - it was just part of the standard crap on the side table in recovery.  I&#039;m quite sure they didn&#039;t give me a new one, nor did they replace it for the next person.  
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A decade ago I received a 30k bill for a four hour stay &#8211; outpatient surgery to replace a defective implant in my abdomen.  I had to sue Allergan (makers of the implant) to pay for it.  They paid 6k and the hospital was fine with that.  The hospital would not negotiate with me.  On my bill was a $35 box of kleenex that I never touched &#8211; it was just part of the standard crap on the side table in recovery.  I&#8217;m quite sure they didn&#8217;t give me a new one, nor did they replace it for the next person.</p>
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		<title>By: Lorelei@twitter</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/#comment-36295</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorelei@twitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 20:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=24020#comment-36295</guid>
		<description>@Lorelei@twitter and I *am* insured! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lorelei@twitter and I *am* insured!</p>
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		<title>By: Lorelei@twitter</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/#comment-36294</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorelei@twitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 20:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=24020#comment-36294</guid>
		<description>This is not helping me screw up my resolve to actually find a primary care physician in the city I&#039;ve lived in for almost 3 years, you guys. I&#039;ll just be continuing to ignore the strange sensations that have been happening in the general vicinity of my heart the last few months and go on with my plan to get more consistent cardiovascular exercise and call it fixed. If I were about to die, my gyno would notice, right? Right. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not helping me screw up my resolve to actually find a primary care physician in the city I&#8217;ve lived in for almost 3 years, you guys. I&#8217;ll just be continuing to ignore the strange sensations that have been happening in the general vicinity of my heart the last few months and go on with my plan to get more consistent cardiovascular exercise and call it fixed. If I were about to die, my gyno would notice, right? Right.</p>
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		<title>By: Lorelei@twitter</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/#comment-36293</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorelei@twitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 20:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=24020#comment-36293</guid>
		<description>@Ash@Work this is like that bizarre Amazon robot pricing thing that produced books being priced at $4,000, only so much huger and more terrible and involving decisions by actual thinking human beings and really the worst part is that it does make sense from the provider&#039;s point of view. 

I am so far from an expert on this and no one should ask me for healthcare policy input, but as far as I can tell, the entire individual fee-for-service model of paying for healthcare is broken. The incentives end up so out of line with reasonable decisions and like, actual patient well-being, and &quot;normal&quot; market pressures that might otherwise discourage the worst abuses don&#039;t come into play because consumers don&#039;t have anywhere near the kind of information they need to make informed decisions, whether it&#039;s about pricing, the actual effectiveness and risks of treatments, what their insurance is going to cover, or...anything. Any part of it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ash@Work this is like that bizarre Amazon robot pricing thing that produced books being priced at $4,000, only so much huger and more terrible and involving decisions by actual thinking human beings and really the worst part is that it does make sense from the provider&#8217;s point of view. </p>
<p>I am so far from an expert on this and no one should ask me for healthcare policy input, but as far as I can tell, the entire individual fee-for-service model of paying for healthcare is broken. The incentives end up so out of line with reasonable decisions and like, actual patient well-being, and &#8220;normal&#8221; market pressures that might otherwise discourage the worst abuses don&#8217;t come into play because consumers don&#8217;t have anywhere near the kind of information they need to make informed decisions, whether it&#8217;s about pricing, the actual effectiveness and risks of treatments, what their insurance is going to cover, or&#8230;anything. Any part of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ash@Work</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/#comment-36290</link>
		<dc:creator>Ash@Work</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 19:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=24020#comment-36290</guid>
		<description>Haven&#039;t read the story yet, but one answer as to why a square of cotton is $7 out of a $2 box: 

(Not saying it&#039;s not completely fucked up, just the way the logic works...)

Surveys exist that provide national/state fee information for each and every Tylenol and cotton square.  This information is reported as percentile ranges.  Good billing practice dictates that an institution wants to be in the higher range of these fees, if not above the 100th percentile.  So each year, the chargemaster is adjusted.  (Usually upwards, but occasionally downwards, if the Fee Reference indicates a drop in price due to something like a generic release or whatever. No one wants to be flagged for possible fraud.)  Since this is standard practice, &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; does it.  And so the survey shows higher rates and so the chargemasters go higher and then are surveyed and the survey increases and then the charg.... ad infinitum.  

So why is it good billing practice?  Because the increasing charges are a way to justify an increase in the rates paid by contracted insurers and the government.  Each party involved knows good and well than that cotton square didn&#039;t cost $7.  They know it cost a little less than the $.17 that has been previously negotiated for payment.  BUT if the hospital can show that nationally, the charge for a cotton square has gone from $7 to $7.50, well, maybe they can negotiate a new rate of $.19.  Multiply those tiny increases across the board?  Suddenly your overall reimbursement rate is up 4% for the year. 

Dumb, stupid, painful...you betcha.  But not without (arcane, twisted) reason.  

Oh and as always: DO NOT PAY 100% OF ANY AND ALL MEDICAL CHARGES. EVER. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven&#8217;t read the story yet, but one answer as to why a square of cotton is $7 out of a $2 box: </p>
<p>(Not saying it&#8217;s not completely fucked up, just the way the logic works&#8230;)</p>
<p>Surveys exist that provide national/state fee information for each and every Tylenol and cotton square.  This information is reported as percentile ranges.  Good billing practice dictates that an institution wants to be in the higher range of these fees, if not above the 100th percentile.  So each year, the chargemaster is adjusted.  (Usually upwards, but occasionally downwards, if the Fee Reference indicates a drop in price due to something like a generic release or whatever. No one wants to be flagged for possible fraud.)  Since this is standard practice, <i>everyone</i> does it.  And so the survey shows higher rates and so the chargemasters go higher and then are surveyed and the survey increases and then the charg&#8230;. ad infinitum.  </p>
<p>So why is it good billing practice?  Because the increasing charges are a way to justify an increase in the rates paid by contracted insurers and the government.  Each party involved knows good and well than that cotton square didn&#8217;t cost $7.  They know it cost a little less than the $.17 that has been previously negotiated for payment.  BUT if the hospital can show that nationally, the charge for a cotton square has gone from $7 to $7.50, well, maybe they can negotiate a new rate of $.19.  Multiply those tiny increases across the board?  Suddenly your overall reimbursement rate is up 4% for the year. </p>
<p>Dumb, stupid, painful&#8230;you betcha.  But not without (arcane, twisted) reason.  </p>
<p>Oh and as always: DO NOT PAY 100% OF ANY AND ALL MEDICAL CHARGES. EVER.</p>
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		<title>By: stuffisthings</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2013/02/the-thing-to-read-this-weekend-is-bitter-pill/#comment-36275</link>
		<dc:creator>stuffisthings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=24020#comment-36275</guid>
		<description>Also this article makes a very good point that what the government pays for health care is service not some doctor-impoverishing insult, but reflects *the actual cost of providing the service*.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also this article makes a very good point that what the government pays for health care is service not some doctor-impoverishing insult, but reflects *the actual cost of providing the service*.</p>
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