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	<title>Comments on: Going Back to the Land: An Interview with the Stewards of the Shii Koeii Community Farm</title>
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	<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/11/going-back-to-the-land-an-interview-with-the-stewards-of-the-shii-koeii-community-farm/</link>
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		<title>By: sash </title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/11/going-back-to-the-land-an-interview-with-the-stewards-of-the-shii-koeii-community-farm/#comment-26874</link>
		<dc:creator>sash </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2012 02:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=18603#comment-26874</guid>
		<description>With discussions about their personal well being and building codes and plans for retirement, I want to bring to mind the big picture - which is not just pragmatics about how you can personally support yourself and have the most comfortable lifestyle affordable. International building codes or not, climate change is inciting more extreme weather. This is due to a confluence of lifestyle choices that have not been sustainable made by millions of people. If they are misguided because they live in a building that is not up to code, I think we have all been misguided living lifestyles with the pretense of staying safe and healthy and an outcome of selfish contributions to the detrimental effects of a warming climate. Aside from following their hearts, their effort to do things differently and question the indulgences most of us take for granted is certainly laudable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With discussions about their personal well being and building codes and plans for retirement, I want to bring to mind the big picture &#8211; which is not just pragmatics about how you can personally support yourself and have the most comfortable lifestyle affordable. International building codes or not, climate change is inciting more extreme weather. This is due to a confluence of lifestyle choices that have not been sustainable made by millions of people. If they are misguided because they live in a building that is not up to code, I think we have all been misguided living lifestyles with the pretense of staying safe and healthy and an outcome of selfish contributions to the detrimental effects of a warming climate. Aside from following their hearts, their effort to do things differently and question the indulgences most of us take for granted is certainly laudable.</p>
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		<title>By: Sasha Lakind@facebook</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/11/going-back-to-the-land-an-interview-with-the-stewards-of-the-shii-koeii-community-farm/#comment-26873</link>
		<dc:creator>Sasha Lakind@facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2012 02:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=18603#comment-26873</guid>
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		<title>By: liznieve</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/11/going-back-to-the-land-an-interview-with-the-stewards-of-the-shii-koeii-community-farm/#comment-25986</link>
		<dc:creator>liznieve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=18603#comment-25986</guid>
		<description>@liznieve Which is my way of saying that that was the first indication that the gentlemen being interviewed, while I applaud them for their gusto and following their hearts, are a little misguided. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@liznieve Which is my way of saying that that was the first indication that the gentlemen being interviewed, while I applaud them for their gusto and following their hearts, are a little misguided.</p>
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		<title>By: liznieve</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/11/going-back-to-the-land-an-interview-with-the-stewards-of-the-shii-koeii-community-farm/#comment-25984</link>
		<dc:creator>liznieve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=18603#comment-25984</guid>
		<description>First of all, all buildings in the entire US of A must abide by a building code. It is called the International Building Code (IBC) and while some renovations may grandfather in an earlier, less stringent code, nevertheless IBC is mandatory everywhere. Especially in parts of colorado that can produce extreme weather. Could you maybe get around some of the residential requirements by illegally declaring its occupancy as some other use? Sure. But there are still codes. Even for a barn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, all buildings in the entire US of A must abide by a building code. It is called the International Building Code (IBC) and while some renovations may grandfather in an earlier, less stringent code, nevertheless IBC is mandatory everywhere. Especially in parts of colorado that can produce extreme weather. Could you maybe get around some of the residential requirements by illegally declaring its occupancy as some other use? Sure. But there are still codes. Even for a barn.</p>
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		<title>By: kreimero</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/11/going-back-to-the-land-an-interview-with-the-stewards-of-the-shii-koeii-community-farm/#comment-25723</link>
		<dc:creator>kreimero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2012 02:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=18603#comment-25723</guid>
		<description>@ghechr It&#039;s used for both things, which is admittedly sometimes confusing! The farm is also an intentional community -- at the moment, it consists of Mark and Val, the permanent resident stewards; Carrie, a year-long resident steward; and a bunch of interns, who come and go over the course of the year. When I lived there this summer, the population fluctuated between about seven people and nine or ten. I know their goal is to get more permanent folks committed to living in the community as fellow resident stewards.

The food they grow is used to feed farm residents and also goes out to two or three markets in the wider community -- so do goat cheese, eggs, honey, etc. And their education projects include teaching their interns (so, the farm community) and weekend workshops on building, hosting nearby girls&#039; groups, that kind of thing (so, the wider community).

The farm community is pretty small and the area is definitely rural, but they&#039;re super involved with folks from all over the county!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ghechr It&#8217;s used for both things, which is admittedly sometimes confusing! The farm is also an intentional community &#8212; at the moment, it consists of Mark and Val, the permanent resident stewards; Carrie, a year-long resident steward; and a bunch of interns, who come and go over the course of the year. When I lived there this summer, the population fluctuated between about seven people and nine or ten. I know their goal is to get more permanent folks committed to living in the community as fellow resident stewards.</p>
<p>The food they grow is used to feed farm residents and also goes out to two or three markets in the wider community &#8212; so do goat cheese, eggs, honey, etc. And their education projects include teaching their interns (so, the farm community) and weekend workshops on building, hosting nearby girls&#8217; groups, that kind of thing (so, the wider community).</p>
<p>The farm community is pretty small and the area is definitely rural, but they&#8217;re super involved with folks from all over the county!</p>
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		<title>By: ghechr</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/11/going-back-to-the-land-an-interview-with-the-stewards-of-the-shii-koeii-community-farm/#comment-25693</link>
		<dc:creator>ghechr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 21:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=18603#comment-25693</guid>
		<description>I think I&#039;m missing a key thing here (it could just be poor reading comprehension) but what do they mean by &#039;community&#039;?  I assumed it meant people that lived around them, not necessarily people who actually lived on the farm itself.  But reading their responses to the retirement question, it sounded like they have permanent(?) people living on the farm and THAT is the community?  So, when they&#039;re growing food or doing education in &quot;the community&quot; it&#039;s just for farm participants or is it a bigger pool of people?  How many people live in their farm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I&#8217;m missing a key thing here (it could just be poor reading comprehension) but what do they mean by &#8216;community&#8217;?  I assumed it meant people that lived around them, not necessarily people who actually lived on the farm itself.  But reading their responses to the retirement question, it sounded like they have permanent(?) people living on the farm and THAT is the community?  So, when they&#8217;re growing food or doing education in &#8220;the community&#8221; it&#8217;s just for farm participants or is it a bigger pool of people?  How many people live in their farm?</p>
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		<title>By: kreimero</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/11/going-back-to-the-land-an-interview-with-the-stewards-of-the-shii-koeii-community-farm/#comment-25669</link>
		<dc:creator>kreimero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 20:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=18603#comment-25669</guid>
		<description>@laluchita And here&#039;s Val (slightly edited for length):

This is a very thoughtful question, and one we get asked a lot.
 
Because we primarily eat what we produce on the farm, we have considerably more fresh organic vegetables in our diet than most Americans.  On the rare occasion I visit a doctor I’m always asked if I eat at least 5 servings of vegetables a day.  In the winter I do, but in the warm season my answer is “more like 11.” 
 
We do a lot of very physical labor, far more than most people, every day in the warm season.  As a result, even though I am overweight (because I LOVE food) and in my mid-40s, my numbers for everything heart-related are astoundingly good.  Mark works harder than I do, and Mark’s numbers are better.  Mark is genetically and temperamentally prone to high blood pressure, and while that was a problem when we lived and worked in the city, it’s simply not a problem for him living and working on the land. 
 
We get a lot of sunshine and fresh air, we aren’t exposed to toxic chemicals, cell tower radio waves, and the near-constant electrical bombardment of most cities and suburbs.  So  you see, in a very real way, our lifeway is our health insurance.
 
When we need health care, we turn primarily to traditional and simple recipes:  if we’re exhausted, stressed out, anxious, cranky or depressed, we’ve finally figured out that the best medicine is rest.  Balance.  R &amp; R.  We can’t always manage this, but we’re getting better at it.  As for colds, flus, etc., this may be hard to believe but we simply don’t get them.  We’re not exposed to many germs because we live in a large county of 6000 people, and we have extremely strong immune systems because of our lifeway.   We know something of herbs and homeopathic remedies and use them.    We are blessed with good friends who are naturopathic doctors who offer advice and support.
 
We are also blessed to live in a country and a county which still provides at least some options for the poor.   We are not entirely independent of government aid.  We are both eligible for our state’s indigent health care program, and participate primarily to protect us in the event of a catastrophic illness or accident.  Our county provides free gynecological exams and mammograms annually for women. 
 
In the case of our having a community member who is disabled or has chronic health conditions, most likely we would have to earn or raise enough cash to provide that person with health insurance, or else find doctors and pharmacists willing to barter.
 
With regard to aging, retirement, and the possibility of our own illness or desire not to do this work anymore, first note that most farmers—healthy ones anyway—continue farming well into their 80s, again, because it’s a healthy lifestyle.  Also, hunting, fishing, gardening, spending time in nature, and mentoring young people are the kinds of activities retirees look forward to, so one might say that, in a way, we’re already retired (though the 14 hour days of summer would suggest otherwise ;-).
 
But the primary answer to your question really lies in community.  We didn’t set out to do this alone.  We set out to create an intentional community, and are still working to grow that community.  We had the brief privilege of sufficient capital to buy the land but we did nothing to earn that and so we don&#039;t feel it belonged to us.  We consider property theft (in this hemisphere specifically the theft of Native nations&#039; lands), we don&#039;t believe in private land ownership and we believe everyone has a right to a home.  This land and lifeways was meant to be shared, to provide a home and livelihood for others in addition to us.  We believe that younger people will be drawn to this lifeway—many such as Olga already have been, at least in the short-term--and will choose to live here longterm in community with us. Really, it’s a good deal for young people if you think about it—the land and infrastructure are paid for, and the work and resources are all shared.  This was always meant to be a multi-generational project, something which survives us.  What we build is literally meant for future generations to enjoy. 
 
Precarity is real, whether you live on the land or in the city, whether you farm or work for Bear Stearns or teach in a public school.  It&#039;s the price we pay for being alive.  But we don&#039;t want precarity.  We want to control everything from the temperature of the air around us to when we finally show signs of aging.  This is living at war with reality, and it isn&#039;t sustainable.  The capitalist system, including health insurance, social security, and retirement are all extremely precarious, yet advertise themselves as almost invincible bulwarks against precarity.  After the economic fall of 2008, when many people lost their retirement savings and/or their homes, and the increasingly skittish nature of numerous markets one would think people would stop putting such faith in this system.  I think they continue to do so because they don’t think they have any other options.  We exist to say otherwise.
 
From our perspective, it’s really just a matter of where you place your faith, and which sort of precarity you choose:  the precarity of real relationships and life lived in balance with the natural world, or the precarity of a dependence on banks, a government which prioritizes war over people, and anonymous corporations which neither know nor care about you.  Our life on the land is not perfect nor without its compromises, but each day we find new ways to choose the former.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@laluchita And here&#8217;s Val (slightly edited for length):</p>
<p>This is a very thoughtful question, and one we get asked a lot.</p>
<p>Because we primarily eat what we produce on the farm, we have considerably more fresh organic vegetables in our diet than most Americans.  On the rare occasion I visit a doctor I’m always asked if I eat at least 5 servings of vegetables a day.  In the winter I do, but in the warm season my answer is “more like 11.” </p>
<p>We do a lot of very physical labor, far more than most people, every day in the warm season.  As a result, even though I am overweight (because I LOVE food) and in my mid-40s, my numbers for everything heart-related are astoundingly good.  Mark works harder than I do, and Mark’s numbers are better.  Mark is genetically and temperamentally prone to high blood pressure, and while that was a problem when we lived and worked in the city, it’s simply not a problem for him living and working on the land. </p>
<p>We get a lot of sunshine and fresh air, we aren’t exposed to toxic chemicals, cell tower radio waves, and the near-constant electrical bombardment of most cities and suburbs.  So  you see, in a very real way, our lifeway is our health insurance.</p>
<p>When we need health care, we turn primarily to traditional and simple recipes:  if we’re exhausted, stressed out, anxious, cranky or depressed, we’ve finally figured out that the best medicine is rest.  Balance.  R &#038; R.  We can’t always manage this, but we’re getting better at it.  As for colds, flus, etc., this may be hard to believe but we simply don’t get them.  We’re not exposed to many germs because we live in a large county of 6000 people, and we have extremely strong immune systems because of our lifeway.   We know something of herbs and homeopathic remedies and use them.    We are blessed with good friends who are naturopathic doctors who offer advice and support.</p>
<p>We are also blessed to live in a country and a county which still provides at least some options for the poor.   We are not entirely independent of government aid.  We are both eligible for our state’s indigent health care program, and participate primarily to protect us in the event of a catastrophic illness or accident.  Our county provides free gynecological exams and mammograms annually for women. </p>
<p>In the case of our having a community member who is disabled or has chronic health conditions, most likely we would have to earn or raise enough cash to provide that person with health insurance, or else find doctors and pharmacists willing to barter.</p>
<p>With regard to aging, retirement, and the possibility of our own illness or desire not to do this work anymore, first note that most farmers—healthy ones anyway—continue farming well into their 80s, again, because it’s a healthy lifestyle.  Also, hunting, fishing, gardening, spending time in nature, and mentoring young people are the kinds of activities retirees look forward to, so one might say that, in a way, we’re already retired (though the 14 hour days of summer would suggest otherwise ;-).</p>
<p>But the primary answer to your question really lies in community.  We didn’t set out to do this alone.  We set out to create an intentional community, and are still working to grow that community.  We had the brief privilege of sufficient capital to buy the land but we did nothing to earn that and so we don&#8217;t feel it belonged to us.  We consider property theft (in this hemisphere specifically the theft of Native nations&#8217; lands), we don&#8217;t believe in private land ownership and we believe everyone has a right to a home.  This land and lifeways was meant to be shared, to provide a home and livelihood for others in addition to us.  We believe that younger people will be drawn to this lifeway—many such as Olga already have been, at least in the short-term&#8211;and will choose to live here longterm in community with us. Really, it’s a good deal for young people if you think about it—the land and infrastructure are paid for, and the work and resources are all shared.  This was always meant to be a multi-generational project, something which survives us.  What we build is literally meant for future generations to enjoy. </p>
<p>Precarity is real, whether you live on the land or in the city, whether you farm or work for Bear Stearns or teach in a public school.  It&#8217;s the price we pay for being alive.  But we don&#8217;t want precarity.  We want to control everything from the temperature of the air around us to when we finally show signs of aging.  This is living at war with reality, and it isn&#8217;t sustainable.  The capitalist system, including health insurance, social security, and retirement are all extremely precarious, yet advertise themselves as almost invincible bulwarks against precarity.  After the economic fall of 2008, when many people lost their retirement savings and/or their homes, and the increasingly skittish nature of numerous markets one would think people would stop putting such faith in this system.  I think they continue to do so because they don’t think they have any other options.  We exist to say otherwise.</p>
<p>From our perspective, it’s really just a matter of where you place your faith, and which sort of precarity you choose:  the precarity of real relationships and life lived in balance with the natural world, or the precarity of a dependence on banks, a government which prioritizes war over people, and anonymous corporations which neither know nor care about you.  Our life on the land is not perfect nor without its compromises, but each day we find new ways to choose the former.</p>
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		<title>By: kreimero</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/11/going-back-to-the-land-an-interview-with-the-stewards-of-the-shii-koeii-community-farm/#comment-25668</link>
		<dc:creator>kreimero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 20:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=18603#comment-25668</guid>
		<description>@laluchita Here are answers from Mark and Val in their entirety!

Mark:
We joke that our health insurance is kale, but truly that&#039;s not far off.  For emergency care, we are covered, for now, with state indigent care -- it&#039;s not great, but if we broke our leg, we&#039;re not going to break the bank.  Beyond living healthy lives of exercise, physical work and nutritious and delicious food we also have friends who are naturopaths who are willing to treat us at deep discounts or trade and barter.  In the five years I&#039;ve been here I&#039;ve never been physically sick.  I&#039;ve been fatigued and worn down, but then I&#039;ll get more rest and eat lots of vegetables!  When I lived in the city I could count on getting sick at least once a year and had respiratory problems because of the smog (and I walked and bicycled everywhere).

The above is a mechanical response.  Another perspective is to look at the vast majority of the world&#039;s population and see that they don&#039;t have access to western health care.  Western health care is predicated on a classist privileged ideology.  Like the rest of capitalism, how do you feel with your health care privilege that does come at the expense of others?  And we all know health insurance companies, lawyers and doctors exploit all of us to earn scandalous profits.  Beyond dollars, the drugging of our population as health care is but a precarious bandaid on a deeper problem.

So we choose to be in solidarity with the oppressed (your questioner called &#039;destitute&#039;).  We choose not to exploit others for profit.  

I don&#039;t plan on retiring like people have been colonized to believe in.  I refuse to work a soul-less job most of my life for primarily rich white men and then &#039;retire&#039; with all of the assorted drugs and addictions of our culture.  If I get sick or disabled later in life I put my faith in our relations here to take care of me.  That&#039;s the least we should be doing for our elders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@laluchita Here are answers from Mark and Val in their entirety!</p>
<p>Mark:<br />
We joke that our health insurance is kale, but truly that&#8217;s not far off.  For emergency care, we are covered, for now, with state indigent care &#8212; it&#8217;s not great, but if we broke our leg, we&#8217;re not going to break the bank.  Beyond living healthy lives of exercise, physical work and nutritious and delicious food we also have friends who are naturopaths who are willing to treat us at deep discounts or trade and barter.  In the five years I&#8217;ve been here I&#8217;ve never been physically sick.  I&#8217;ve been fatigued and worn down, but then I&#8217;ll get more rest and eat lots of vegetables!  When I lived in the city I could count on getting sick at least once a year and had respiratory problems because of the smog (and I walked and bicycled everywhere).</p>
<p>The above is a mechanical response.  Another perspective is to look at the vast majority of the world&#8217;s population and see that they don&#8217;t have access to western health care.  Western health care is predicated on a classist privileged ideology.  Like the rest of capitalism, how do you feel with your health care privilege that does come at the expense of others?  And we all know health insurance companies, lawyers and doctors exploit all of us to earn scandalous profits.  Beyond dollars, the drugging of our population as health care is but a precarious bandaid on a deeper problem.</p>
<p>So we choose to be in solidarity with the oppressed (your questioner called &#8216;destitute&#8217;).  We choose not to exploit others for profit.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t plan on retiring like people have been colonized to believe in.  I refuse to work a soul-less job most of my life for primarily rich white men and then &#8216;retire&#8217; with all of the assorted drugs and addictions of our culture.  If I get sick or disabled later in life I put my faith in our relations here to take care of me.  That&#8217;s the least we should be doing for our elders.</p>
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		<title>By: laluchita</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/11/going-back-to-the-land-an-interview-with-the-stewards-of-the-shii-koeii-community-farm/#comment-25576</link>
		<dc:creator>laluchita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=18603#comment-25576</guid>
		<description>This was a really great piece! I guess my main question for Mark and Val would be about health insurance and retirement. I definitely understand the desire to live outside the cash economy, and to devote your life to a project without necessarily earning a &quot;salary&quot; in return, but what happens if either of them becomes seriously ill? What if, 20 years down the line, they are no longer able or willing to live on and run the farm? I know too many activists who worked their whole lives on labors of love and were left destitute after an accident/illness/organizational disillusion. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a really great piece! I guess my main question for Mark and Val would be about health insurance and retirement. I definitely understand the desire to live outside the cash economy, and to devote your life to a project without necessarily earning a &#8220;salary&#8221; in return, but what happens if either of them becomes seriously ill? What if, 20 years down the line, they are no longer able or willing to live on and run the farm? I know too many activists who worked their whole lives on labors of love and were left destitute after an accident/illness/organizational disillusion.</p>
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