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	<title>Comments on: Why We Need Mentors</title>
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		<title>By: sony_b</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/08/why-we-need-mentors/#comment-14548</link>
		<dc:creator>sony_b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 15:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=11137#comment-14548</guid>
		<description>@Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook I haven&#039;t cracked the PMBOK yet - I bought it and the O&#039;Reilly Head First PMP, which I did skim when I was trying to decide whether or not to do this.  In your shoes I would do the CAPM first, and then look for a job that will help you fill the reqs for the PMP.  The CAPM would show hiring managers that you&#039;re serious.  Can you get your job to pay for any of it? 

You might consider mentoring a new grad yourself - even if you&#039;re not confident in your growth opportunities, you&#039;ve got over a decade of experience now and could probably offer a lot to a new kid.  I think that it may be too late for us to take advantage of something like this, but growing the culture of mentoring from the ground up is the only way it&#039;s going to take root in the community as a whole.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook I haven&#8217;t cracked the PMBOK yet &#8211; I bought it and the O&#8217;Reilly Head First PMP, which I did skim when I was trying to decide whether or not to do this.  In your shoes I would do the CAPM first, and then look for a job that will help you fill the reqs for the PMP.  The CAPM would show hiring managers that you&#8217;re serious.  Can you get your job to pay for any of it? </p>
<p>You might consider mentoring a new grad yourself &#8211; even if you&#8217;re not confident in your growth opportunities, you&#8217;ve got over a decade of experience now and could probably offer a lot to a new kid.  I think that it may be too late for us to take advantage of something like this, but growing the culture of mentoring from the ground up is the only way it&#8217;s going to take root in the community as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/08/why-we-need-mentors/#comment-14538</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 14:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=11137#comment-14538</guid>
		<description>@ThatJenn That was my problem. I left college both geographically and intellectually, as the research opportunities in my department had nothing to do with any career path that I wanted to take. They were actually quite far behind on interactive media at my university at the time, and I was learning more at internships in the NYC area. But interactive media is no place to look for professional guidance, apparently, unless you want to get told a million times that &quot;all you have to do is get funding and start your own startup. It&#039;s easy!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ThatJenn That was my problem. I left college both geographically and intellectually, as the research opportunities in my department had nothing to do with any career path that I wanted to take. They were actually quite far behind on interactive media at my university at the time, and I was learning more at internships in the NYC area. But interactive media is no place to look for professional guidance, apparently, unless you want to get told a million times that &#8220;all you have to do is get funding and start your own startup. It&#8217;s easy!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/08/why-we-need-mentors/#comment-14535</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 14:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=11137#comment-14535</guid>
		<description>@sony_b I&#039;ve been a member of a lot of user groups and meetups. Especially here in NYC, everything is always about showcasing already-launched products and attracting investors. I&#039;ve found that there are only a few select people who actually want to talk systems and coding. I don&#039;t think those few people are to blame because they are busy or immersed in their projects, but the fact that there are so few people to begin with who are visible in the community as coders is a sign that things aren&#039;t good. 

There are some unique community-based coding opportunities here, though. But they&#039;re vastly oversubscribed and are rejecting people left/right. It&#039;s not really a mentorship thing, it&#039;s more of an incubator thing. I&#039;m always looking out, though.

I&#039;ve considered PMP certification but I don&#039;t qualify for the PMP exam. I do have project management experience but it&#039;s just not enough. Would it be better to go for CAPM first? That said, I&#039;ve gone to the library and read PMBOK cover-to-cover, and I use that knowledge in projects, so I&#039;m confident that I&#039;m cut out for PMP.

@Megano! - yes, that sounds like a smart move. I had a few professors with good relations but unfortunately I had always planned to move away from college after completing my bachelor&#039;s, and moving into the NYC area meant that I was cut off from my university community and stranded up here unless I enrolled in grad school (which I declined to seek due to cost reasons). I took three different internships up here and none of them turned into any ongoing relationships because that wasn&#039;t really why those managers hired &quot;interns&quot;. (As in, it was never their intent to be mentors, they just wanted free assistants to do gruntwork) I took a lot of temp-to-perm jobs after that, but, no mentor-minded people there, either. And, as I&#039;ve said above, I do go to many meetups but I find that very few people make themselves available for mentoring relationships. I still hold out hope that I&#039;ll serendipitously run into someone who is a willing mentor, I&#039;m a little more worried that I&#039;m at the point where I ought to be the mentor, that I&#039;m too long-in-the-tooth to earn the attention of anyone looking to get people started with their careers. (I called my university alumni association in regards to this, and they were unable to figure out what to do with me when I said I was a graduate looking for a local mentor up here, not a mentor looking for an undergrad to instruct. Useless people.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@sony_b I&#8217;ve been a member of a lot of user groups and meetups. Especially here in NYC, everything is always about showcasing already-launched products and attracting investors. I&#8217;ve found that there are only a few select people who actually want to talk systems and coding. I don&#8217;t think those few people are to blame because they are busy or immersed in their projects, but the fact that there are so few people to begin with who are visible in the community as coders is a sign that things aren&#8217;t good. </p>
<p>There are some unique community-based coding opportunities here, though. But they&#8217;re vastly oversubscribed and are rejecting people left/right. It&#8217;s not really a mentorship thing, it&#8217;s more of an incubator thing. I&#8217;m always looking out, though.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve considered PMP certification but I don&#8217;t qualify for the PMP exam. I do have project management experience but it&#8217;s just not enough. Would it be better to go for CAPM first? That said, I&#8217;ve gone to the library and read PMBOK cover-to-cover, and I use that knowledge in projects, so I&#8217;m confident that I&#8217;m cut out for PMP.</p>
<p>@Megano! &#8211; yes, that sounds like a smart move. I had a few professors with good relations but unfortunately I had always planned to move away from college after completing my bachelor&#8217;s, and moving into the NYC area meant that I was cut off from my university community and stranded up here unless I enrolled in grad school (which I declined to seek due to cost reasons). I took three different internships up here and none of them turned into any ongoing relationships because that wasn&#8217;t really why those managers hired &#8220;interns&#8221;. (As in, it was never their intent to be mentors, they just wanted free assistants to do gruntwork) I took a lot of temp-to-perm jobs after that, but, no mentor-minded people there, either. And, as I&#8217;ve said above, I do go to many meetups but I find that very few people make themselves available for mentoring relationships. I still hold out hope that I&#8217;ll serendipitously run into someone who is a willing mentor, I&#8217;m a little more worried that I&#8217;m at the point where I ought to be the mentor, that I&#8217;m too long-in-the-tooth to earn the attention of anyone looking to get people started with their careers. (I called my university alumni association in regards to this, and they were unable to figure out what to do with me when I said I was a graduate looking for a local mentor up here, not a mentor looking for an undergrad to instruct. Useless people.)</p>
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		<title>By: bibliostitute</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/08/why-we-need-mentors/#comment-14524</link>
		<dc:creator>bibliostitute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 13:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=11137#comment-14524</guid>
		<description>Wait, I&#039;m going to copycat Blair! In the opposite direction! Is there a mentor out there who will not talk me away from trying to figure out this magazine writing business? I know words and I am a nomad, I do not know the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, I&#8217;m going to copycat Blair! In the opposite direction! Is there a mentor out there who will not talk me away from trying to figure out this magazine writing business? I know words and I am a nomad, I do not know the system.</p>
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		<title>By: ThatJenn</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/08/why-we-need-mentors/#comment-14523</link>
		<dc:creator>ThatJenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 13:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=11137#comment-14523</guid>
		<description>I picked all (wonderful!) mentors who were in academia, and have had a hard time finding appropriate mentors now that I&#039;ve decided to leave academia (I was previously enrolled in a PhD program and hoped to head for a position as a professor). My two academic mentors are great, and I love them, but they don&#039;t have a lot to say about my current career path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I picked all (wonderful!) mentors who were in academia, and have had a hard time finding appropriate mentors now that I&#8217;ve decided to leave academia (I was previously enrolled in a PhD program and hoped to head for a position as a professor). My two academic mentors are great, and I love them, but they don&#8217;t have a lot to say about my current career path.</p>
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		<title>By: Megano!</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/08/why-we-need-mentors/#comment-14494</link>
		<dc:creator>Megano!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 02:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=11137#comment-14494</guid>
		<description>@Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook My ex was a programmer and kind of lucked out in the mentorship thing, I guess? Basically what he did was connect with profs he felt would be helpful during school, and he spent a summer doing a research program for one. He also worked at a really small start-up company too, and basically the guy there helped him get his first job out of school (a really good one). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook My ex was a programmer and kind of lucked out in the mentorship thing, I guess? Basically what he did was connect with profs he felt would be helpful during school, and he spent a summer doing a research program for one. He also worked at a really small start-up company too, and basically the guy there helped him get his first job out of school (a really good one).</p>
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		<title>By: sony_b</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/08/why-we-need-mentors/#comment-14482</link>
		<dc:creator>sony_b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 23:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=11137#comment-14482</guid>
		<description>@Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook I was hired as an engineer at Sun straight out of grad school (after interning there for 18 months) and joined their mentor program, and the experience was awful.  My mentor was a really nice woman, but we never clicked and it was just a really uncomfortable year for both of us.  

That said, have you ever gone to a user-group meeting? I work in the Java world but *UGs of any stripe can be useful for this.  My BF found a great mentor through a JUG in Greenville, SC a few years ago that really helped kick off his career.  

The other place I&#039;ve seen some serious mentoring happen is in open source, but you have to choose your project carefully because there are a lot of assholes out there. 

Since I was hired at Sun I haven&#039;t written a line of code - they started laying off folks and I have the soft (read: girl) skills that they needed to take over the admin aspects of my team.  Now, 7 years later at the-place-that-bought-Sun I run the project.  I miss coding, but haven&#039;t done it in so long that re-entry is close to impossible.  

If you want to switch to management, have you looked into the PMP cert?  I&#039;m doing the application this week.  It&#039;s a bitch, but should be worth 120k to start when I&#039;m ready to move on to the next thing.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook I was hired as an engineer at Sun straight out of grad school (after interning there for 18 months) and joined their mentor program, and the experience was awful.  My mentor was a really nice woman, but we never clicked and it was just a really uncomfortable year for both of us.  </p>
<p>That said, have you ever gone to a user-group meeting? I work in the Java world but *UGs of any stripe can be useful for this.  My BF found a great mentor through a JUG in Greenville, SC a few years ago that really helped kick off his career.  </p>
<p>The other place I&#8217;ve seen some serious mentoring happen is in open source, but you have to choose your project carefully because there are a lot of assholes out there. </p>
<p>Since I was hired at Sun I haven&#8217;t written a line of code &#8211; they started laying off folks and I have the soft (read: girl) skills that they needed to take over the admin aspects of my team.  Now, 7 years later at the-place-that-bought-Sun I run the project.  I miss coding, but haven&#8217;t done it in so long that re-entry is close to impossible.  </p>
<p>If you want to switch to management, have you looked into the PMP cert?  I&#8217;m doing the application this week.  It&#8217;s a bitch, but should be worth 120k to start when I&#8217;m ready to move on to the next thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/08/why-we-need-mentors/#comment-14480</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Van Nieuwenhoven@facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=11137#comment-14480</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a computer programmer and have found nothing even remotely approaching direct mentorship, save for some dudes at networking events talking about Rails or Python to hype up their tool-of-choice, and some general suggestions that one ought to learn everything themselves on the web if they want to get anything done. 

What&#039;s even worse about this is that there&#039;s a very binary, oft-quoted view in the industry that &quot;good coders are 20x better than bad coders&quot; and that bad coders can&#039;t be (efficiently) instructed to improve their work. So, if anything, this is an industry that abhors one-on-one direct instruction as a worker education tool. 

This is why there are thousands of &quot;ninja programmer&quot; spots available while thousands of average or hopeful programmers are constantly rejected for consideration. It&#039;s pretty counter-intuitive.

If anyone in that industry could be persuaded to change their minds about this and invest some personal time into reviewing the work of young hopefuls, that would be great. I think it&#039;s too late for me, because I&#039;m 12 years out of college and I just want an exit from the technical side of things. I feel like I&#039;m better at managing projects, and I don&#039;t have the time to jump among trendy development tools every day of the week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a computer programmer and have found nothing even remotely approaching direct mentorship, save for some dudes at networking events talking about Rails or Python to hype up their tool-of-choice, and some general suggestions that one ought to learn everything themselves on the web if they want to get anything done. </p>
<p>What&#8217;s even worse about this is that there&#8217;s a very binary, oft-quoted view in the industry that &#8220;good coders are 20x better than bad coders&#8221; and that bad coders can&#8217;t be (efficiently) instructed to improve their work. So, if anything, this is an industry that abhors one-on-one direct instruction as a worker education tool. </p>
<p>This is why there are thousands of &#8220;ninja programmer&#8221; spots available while thousands of average or hopeful programmers are constantly rejected for consideration. It&#8217;s pretty counter-intuitive.</p>
<p>If anyone in that industry could be persuaded to change their minds about this and invest some personal time into reviewing the work of young hopefuls, that would be great. I think it&#8217;s too late for me, because I&#8217;m 12 years out of college and I just want an exit from the technical side of things. I feel like I&#8217;m better at managing projects, and I don&#8217;t have the time to jump among trendy development tools every day of the week.</p>
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		<title>By: ElBlynx</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/08/why-we-need-mentors/#comment-14474</link>
		<dc:creator>ElBlynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=11137#comment-14474</guid>
		<description>Also, I think it is awesome that Mike has (had) so many female mentors! I tend to try to seek out mentors of the same gender as we are still underrepresented in the upper levels of my field, but I think it is crucial to have a mix of mentors to fully benefit from a diversity of experiences and connections. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I think it is awesome that Mike has (had) so many female mentors! I tend to try to seek out mentors of the same gender as we are still underrepresented in the upper levels of my field, but I think it is crucial to have a mix of mentors to fully benefit from a diversity of experiences and connections.</p>
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		<title>By: ElBlynx</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/08/why-we-need-mentors/#comment-14473</link>
		<dc:creator>ElBlynx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 21:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=11137#comment-14473</guid>
		<description>A large part of deciding to go back to school for me is for the mentorship from my advisor and other professors and professionals. It took me a long time to realize at my previous job that although the peer mentorship was great, all the people who would have been appropriate professional mentors were deeply unhappy in their jobs and thus were unable to be very encouraging in their field. Without mentorship, it is impossible to move ahead in your career because you need to have people that believe in your potential because any promotion involves some sort of leap of faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A large part of deciding to go back to school for me is for the mentorship from my advisor and other professors and professionals. It took me a long time to realize at my previous job that although the peer mentorship was great, all the people who would have been appropriate professional mentors were deeply unhappy in their jobs and thus were unable to be very encouraging in their field. Without mentorship, it is impossible to move ahead in your career because you need to have people that believe in your potential because any promotion involves some sort of leap of faith.</p>
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