Salary Requirements, Part II
So! You asked, and I’m here to offer my thoughts.
Here’s the thing about salary requirements: Some people require more money than other people, and that’s why this is a common question that’s asked by employers. We all have different needs. Some people have massive amounts of student loans, or mortgages, or families they need to support, and because of that, they have a salary requirement that needs to be met so that they have enough money coming in from each paycheck to meet their financial obligations. At the very least, you’ll need to ask for the minimum amount of money that you need to pay your bills, but you’ll also want a little extra on top of that so you can actually save money for things you want. You know, like a vacation, because you’re going to burn out and hate the world if all you’re doing is working for the minimum amount of money to pay the bills.
I think young people have a difficult time with this question because they haven’t had a lot of experience in the job market yet, and often don’t have big financial obligations like a family to support, so they’ll often take what’s advertised, or offered. Obviously, you need to be realistic. You can’t apply for an administrative assistant position, and then ask for the CEO’s salary, no matter how much you think you’re worth. You have to look at your industry and the salary ranges for your position.
Remember when a reader wrote in to ask me how much she should be earning after she graduated from college? I mentioned a couple of websites in my answer to help her with her research.
Most of us start out with entry-level positions in our fields. You know what entry-level people get paid, and once you have some time under your belt, you’re no longer an entry-level person. So, if you have that time under your belt, you know that your salary requirement should be more than the entry-level salary. When I started working in the journalism and media industry, the entry-level positions were mostly $30,000 or less. I’ve been doing my thing for about a decade now, and if I were to go out and apply for a job today, I wouldn’t accept a $30,000 entry-level salary.
Once you have years of valuable experience and knowledge under your belt and become good and what you do, employers are willing to pay for that, and you can be in a position where you can state your salary requirements, and get it. If you are good at what you do, people will want to poach you to work for them, and when you are being poached, you are in a position to really ask for what you’re worth.
CHERRISPRYTE IS A GOLDEN GOD(DESS)
@bibliostitute call me?
@cherrispryte maybe.
I think there is also something to be said for considering whether you are working for a private, profit-driven company, or a non-profit or not-for-profit or taxpayer-funded entity where they really have a responsibility to cut administrative costs as much as possible.
If you’ve been terminally underemployed for basically your entire working life, and interviewers basically roll their eyes when you mention your target salary – consider that this is because you are an economically worthless slag and should maybe just jump off a roof at the nearest opportunity.
Or do not kill yourself because it’s hard to find work and feel free to define your worth by something else.
I have been ok stating a laughably high number (I didn’t really know better) because the job required that kind of ballsiness to succeed. So that’s another thing to consider.
@Lily Rowan This is a really good point about jobs that require ballsiness (which many jobs I apply for do).
@ThatJenn I mean, don’t look foolish on purpose, but overselling can work in your favor.
@Lily Rowan Of course. But this kind of thinking has led me to ask for a (noticeable but not massive) increase from my previous salary, instead of just saying “I don’t wish to leave this position for less than I’m making right now” like I used to.
@ThatJenn Oh yeah, absolutely! That’s not even that ballsy — just good practice. (…she said, trying to make it stick in her own head this time!)
Even if a position you’ve applied for is considered entry-level, I think it’s really important not to assume that you should ask for the minimum salary given. In my experience, the only reason young employees were given the minimum for their positions was because they didn’t ask for more – for instance, in my first entry-level admin job at a university, I nervously asked for $30,500K/year rather than the minimum $27,500K provided on the description (I realize not all jobs provide this, but for larger institutions like a university it’s fairly common – and looking back now, my request seems laughably low).
I expected to have to justify my reasons for the request (my previous experience working part-time in fundraising and conference organizing), but to my surprise, the hiring manager immediately agreed. To me, $3K more a year was a HUGE deal, but to the university’s HR, it was pennies, and well within their budget. I think it’s important to keep this in mind. One hiring manager told me later that requesting a specific salary was often seen to mean that the candidate was seriously interested in the position and had taken the time to consider their worth to the company.
If you need to state your salary expectations before it’s clear that you’re a serious candidate, however, it’s obviously a lot tougher to feel confident. My advice would be to consider what your skills are worth, and not just the level of position (and also: your previous part-time work experiences should also count – especially for an entry-level post). State in a friendly and polite way that you feel that this is a reasonable starting salary given your skills, but that you are willing to be flexible. In my opinion, if they’re reasonable and they like your skill set, they’ll choose you over the mediocre candidate who didn’t ask for a specific or higher salary – they want someone qualified who is motivated to work for them, and your salary request will reflect that motivation.
@wrenochka Heartily sound advice, well given.
@wrenochka Interesting, because I recently took my first entry-level job at a major university, and there was no salary discussion whatsoever. In a previous thread about salary negotiation, it seemed like people’s experiences in university jobs were evenly split between being able to ask/negotiate (like your case) and having a very narrow, non-negotiable range (mine.) I’m curious whether that has anything to do with an employee’s actual field. If I were applying for an admin job rather than a paraprofessional library position, for example, would it have been different?
@wallsdonotfall It’s tricky – in my first interview, the only reason salary came up was because I brought it up (if it’s possible, I’d recommend asking something like, “What salary and benefits are you able to offer for this position?”). I think it depends on several things – for instance, is it a unionized post? How many people are being hired and who is doing the hiring? (Someone within the dept or some generic HR person for the whole institute?) All my university jobs have been straight-up admin positions. Out of curiosity, what kind of position did you apply for? Did they have you sign a contract? I’m surprised they offered you no range at all, and even more if they never said, “Oh, and this is what you will be paid.”
@wrenochka At my very large university, there is typically no salary negotiation for lower-level admin jobs. 3K is definitely not pennies to our HR, in the context of multi-year hiring freezes and salary freezes.
Our department recently lost out on some very good candidates because we were not able to even match their current salary. My supervisor fought HR but couldn’t get them to budge.
@Jellybish Yeah, a few years ago when I was hiring an entry-level position for a smallish non-profit, the salary was what it was, and I definitely lost some good candidates when I told them the number.
@wrenochka I applied as a production assistant in the library, which required a bachelor’s degree and a few years of relevant experience. Salary came up during the interview when the personnel librarian said, “Level two paraprofessional positions pay $17 to $19 an hour. Almost everyone is paid at the lower end of that, and then your salary increases slightly every year.” She went on to outline the benefits, and I didn’t pursue that line. When I got the offer letter, it just said bluntly, “You will be compensated at $17.20 an hour.”
@Lily Rowan Yeah, that’s an unfortunate difference between a large company or institution – I apologize if it wasn’t clear that my advice applied for the times you’re applying to a large institution, and not a non-profit.
@Jellybish That’s really unfortunate – my experience has been in the Canadian university market, and two out of the three departments where I’ve worked were even expanding to accommodate larger student enrolments and grants intended to assist with the creation of new programs. Maybe it’s a difference in the national markets? Or maybe I’ve been lucky to work at institutions receiving new funding?
@wallsdonotfall
Yeah, that doesn’t sound like they were interested or able to offer anything higher. I think you might have a different experience applying for admin positions, but as the other commenters in this thread have mentioned, it really depends on the budget situation at your university (and whether those jobs are even available). For positions where it’s not so clear what the wage restrictions are, however, I still think it’s important to make a request, while being clear that you are flexible – the fact that new employees usually never asked about salary possibilities was something that came up again and again while I worked at universities, and there’s a reason a department receives a salary range for a position – it’s meant for negotiation. If they don’t have a range to offer, then obviously there can be no negotiation.
Congrats on the new job, though! I hope it’s enjoyable – and maybe it can lead to something higher-paying eventually?
Stepping over companies that might hope to pay less than market rate to someone because they know what they’re worth, salary requirements are a place for the prospect to say, “No way am I taking less than I’m earning now, or less than I earned at my last company.”
Wow, you woldn’t take $30,000 for an entry level media job? Cuz that is the standard in Canada.
@Megano! I think he’s saying he wouldn’t take an entry-level media job at all at this point?
@stuffisthings Well no, why would he?
Sooooooo interesting to read “At the very least, you’ll need to ask for the minimum amount of money that you need to pay your bills” because that has never factored into my salary expectations/requests. For me it’s all about how much I am worth. Which is a lot; I’m pretty great.
I can’t agree more on checking the salary websites — or ask around if you have friends in a similar field. Also, Mike is completely right that there is a huge difference between entry level and beyond entry level salaries. Even at a nonprofit, our entry-level salaries only vary by about 5%, whereas salaries for mid-career positions can vary by 50% or more within the same job title depending on the person’s experience, past compensation, portfolio, responsibilities, etc.
But yeah, for an entry-level job, find out what those jobs usually pay and ask for a range.
@stuffisthings Oh, another good starting point if you can find any salary information for your field is to just look at average pay for someone with your education in your city/state. The Census Bureau and Bureau of Labor Statistics are a good place to start, but make sure you’re looking at the median salary for a single, full-time worker, and not a household (too high) or average per worker (too low, because it includes part-timers).
If you absolutely have to give them a number (don’t do it if you can help it), research the hell out of typical salaries for your field/experience level, pick a number you’d be really happy to get, and round up to the nearest $5,000. In the letter, say you’re looking for a salary “in the $XX,000 range, negotiable based on benefits.”
Freelance writers, this resource is a pretty good one: http://www.njcreatives.org/membership/120-how-much-should-i-charge.html. If I used it more often I would NOT get myself into stupid situations like two weeks ago, where I did an artist bio for a big record company and charged $280 when they are accustomed to paying their writers like $500.
Is there a rule of thumb about what point a job stops being “entry level”? When it requires 5 years of experience? 10 years? A master’s degree? It seems really variable.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I feel special. and educated!
Working in a support function, I’ve been through some weird salary negotiations in the past years. I was recently hired to manage the finance & accounting function for an architectural planning & design company, and they were trying to negotiate down my salary request because “in general, maybe you didn’t know this, but architects don’t actually make that much, so your salary would be well above the average in our industry and more than we pay to pretty much anyone here”. Ummm, ok, I DON’T CARE! There are way more architects in the job market than anyone will hire right now, and a shortage of finance professionals! That was not the only job offer I had and they really wanted me, so I got what I wanted from them. Why they thought they could decide my salary based on what they pay architects in the first place is still beyond me.
Yikes yikes yikes yikes. If I tripled what I made now, it would fall into this entry-level example. I’ve been applying for all the jobs and just been like, “Give me more than I make now. Thanks a bunches!” Although this makes me feel better about asking for more, I do not, under any circumstances, feel worth that much.