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	<title>Comments on: The Gratification of Giving</title>
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	<description>Everything About Money You Were Too Polite To Ask</description>
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		<title>By: Dale Edmonds@facebook</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/06/the-gratification-of-giving/#comment-6771</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Edmonds@facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=6009#comment-6771</guid>
		<description>A little girl I know baked cookies and sold them for $1 to raise funds for charity. Her parents asked me for suggestions of a children&#039;s charity because I work for a non-profit in Cambodia. The key was that they wanted it to be a teaching moment for her. Some initial ideas were that she could give the cash directly then meet and play with the children, or use the money to buy something physical like toys etc and give them to the charity. 

In the end, she took the money to the office of a very nice local children&#039;s charity and was thanked by one of the staff and had her photo taken with them. She was stoked and everyone was happy. 

Because as nice as a lesson it would have been for her - flip it round and think how the children at the charity would feel having a relatively rich kid come down with a donation and expecting them to play with her. Her parents also were able to explain that the charity knew what they need to spend the money on best and gently persuaded her away from buying gifts in kind. 

You shouldn&#039;t use the poor to &#039;teach&#039; your children lessons. Teach them about the social justice issues, teach them about researching effective charities, but not as some kind of twisted gratitude lesson. 

I have such mixed feelings about articles like this because with my Non-profit Director hat on, I recognise that people donate for lots of reasons, and sentimental donations make just as much difference as practical donations. But it still worries me. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little girl I know baked cookies and sold them for $1 to raise funds for charity. Her parents asked me for suggestions of a children&#8217;s charity because I work for a non-profit in Cambodia. The key was that they wanted it to be a teaching moment for her. Some initial ideas were that she could give the cash directly then meet and play with the children, or use the money to buy something physical like toys etc and give them to the charity. </p>
<p>In the end, she took the money to the office of a very nice local children&#8217;s charity and was thanked by one of the staff and had her photo taken with them. She was stoked and everyone was happy. </p>
<p>Because as nice as a lesson it would have been for her &#8211; flip it round and think how the children at the charity would feel having a relatively rich kid come down with a donation and expecting them to play with her. Her parents also were able to explain that the charity knew what they need to spend the money on best and gently persuaded her away from buying gifts in kind. </p>
<p>You shouldn&#8217;t use the poor to &#8216;teach&#8217; your children lessons. Teach them about the social justice issues, teach them about researching effective charities, but not as some kind of twisted gratitude lesson. </p>
<p>I have such mixed feelings about articles like this because with my Non-profit Director hat on, I recognise that people donate for lots of reasons, and sentimental donations make just as much difference as practical donations. But it still worries me.</p>
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		<title>By: stuffisthings</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/06/the-gratification-of-giving/#comment-6734</link>
		<dc:creator>stuffisthings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=6009#comment-6734</guid>
		<description>@Jamie I&#039;m not confused, though perhaps I disagree with you. I&#039;m not sure about what, because I also think that this was a good and interesting piece, and that &quot;sharing&quot; and &quot;giving&quot; are different words with different meanings.

Liking your own posts is a bit tacky, though, so we can disagree about that if you want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jamie I&#8217;m not confused, though perhaps I disagree with you. I&#8217;m not sure about what, because I also think that this was a good and interesting piece, and that &#8220;sharing&#8221; and &#8220;giving&#8221; are different words with different meanings.</p>
<p>Liking your own posts is a bit tacky, though, so we can disagree about that if you want.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/06/the-gratification-of-giving/#comment-6723</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=6009#comment-6723</guid>
		<description>@stuffisthings You are a confused individual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@stuffisthings You are a confused individual.</p>
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		<title>By: stuffisthings</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/06/the-gratification-of-giving/#comment-6722</link>
		<dc:creator>stuffisthings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=6009#comment-6722</guid>
		<description>@Jamie I&#039;m dwelling on the Bhutan example because A) it perpetuates a myth about that country and it&#039;s GNH system that I find pernicious and annoying and B) I think it is an example many people use thoughtlessly, and I wanted to point the author and other readers towards a more useful way of understanding the same concept that is not also a dictator&#039;s talking point. Also, it is not an example of utility.

I do think &quot;sharing&quot; (in the kindergarten sense of &quot;sharing your cookies&quot;) is a better way of looking at charity, versus &quot;giving&quot; (in the adult sense of &quot;giving a homeless man a dollar&quot;). Specifically, I think this would be an effective way to explain to a child the moral obligation to help the less fortunate (which is ostensibly what this article is about). I used those two words in that way intentionally to make a point, not because I am confused about their definitions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jamie I&#8217;m dwelling on the Bhutan example because A) it perpetuates a myth about that country and it&#8217;s GNH system that I find pernicious and annoying and B) I think it is an example many people use thoughtlessly, and I wanted to point the author and other readers towards a more useful way of understanding the same concept that is not also a dictator&#8217;s talking point. Also, it is not an example of utility.</p>
<p>I do think &#8220;sharing&#8221; (in the kindergarten sense of &#8220;sharing your cookies&#8221;) is a better way of looking at charity, versus &#8220;giving&#8221; (in the adult sense of &#8220;giving a homeless man a dollar&#8221;). Specifically, I think this would be an effective way to explain to a child the moral obligation to help the less fortunate (which is ostensibly what this article is about). I used those two words in that way intentionally to make a point, not because I am confused about their definitions.</p>
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		<title>By: mishaps</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/06/the-gratification-of-giving/#comment-6721</link>
		<dc:creator>mishaps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=6009#comment-6721</guid>
		<description>Giving to charity with your kids on a regular basis is an important Jewish tradition:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kveller.com/preschooler/How_To_Talk_About/Teaching_Tzedakah.shtml&quot;&gt;http://www.kveller.com/preschooler/How_To_Talk_About/Teaching_Tzedakah.shtml&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giving to charity with your kids on a regular basis is an important Jewish tradition:<br />
<a href="http://www.kveller.com/preschooler/How_To_Talk_About/Teaching_Tzedakah.shtml">http://www.kveller.com/preschooler/How_To_Talk_About/Teaching_Tzedakah.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/06/the-gratification-of-giving/#comment-6708</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=6009#comment-6708</guid>
		<description>@stuffisthings I think you might want to look up the definitions of &#039;sharing&#039; and &#039;giving.&#039;

Also, I&#039;m not sure why you&#039;re dwelling on Bhutan - perhaps you should re-read the piece to see that it is simply used as an example of utility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@stuffisthings I think you might want to look up the definitions of &#8216;sharing&#8217; and &#8216;giving.&#8217;</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m not sure why you&#8217;re dwelling on Bhutan &#8211; perhaps you should re-read the piece to see that it is simply used as an example of utility.</p>
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		<title>By: stuffisthings</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/06/the-gratification-of-giving/#comment-6689</link>
		<dc:creator>stuffisthings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=6009#comment-6689</guid>
		<description>@Jamie Well, I could go on at length about Bhutan and about the other, more serious approaches to measuring well-being that go beyond GDP, which have nothing to do with Bhutan&#039;s supposed &quot;unique Buddhist culture&quot; -- for instance, OECD&#039;s Better Life Index or the venerable Human Development Index. I&#039;m just not sure what the relationship is supposed to be between the economic concept of utility, the ethical philosophy of utilitarianism, and Bhutan&#039;s Buddhist exceptionalism.

Also, I disagree that charity is not about sharing. Conceiving of charity in terms of the act of giving, and what this act does for the giver, is (in my view) solipsistic and morally bankrupt, which I think is one of the points the author was trying to make.

The kind of sharing you learn in kindergarten -- if I have a lot of something, and you have none, it is right that I give you some of mine -- is a much more solid foundation for a moral society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jamie Well, I could go on at length about Bhutan and about the other, more serious approaches to measuring well-being that go beyond GDP, which have nothing to do with Bhutan&#8217;s supposed &#8220;unique Buddhist culture&#8221; &#8212; for instance, OECD&#8217;s Better Life Index or the venerable Human Development Index. I&#8217;m just not sure what the relationship is supposed to be between the economic concept of utility, the ethical philosophy of utilitarianism, and Bhutan&#8217;s Buddhist exceptionalism.</p>
<p>Also, I disagree that charity is not about sharing. Conceiving of charity in terms of the act of giving, and what this act does for the giver, is (in my view) solipsistic and morally bankrupt, which I think is one of the points the author was trying to make.</p>
<p>The kind of sharing you learn in kindergarten &#8212; if I have a lot of something, and you have none, it is right that I give you some of mine &#8212; is a much more solid foundation for a moral society.</p>
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		<title>By: readyornot</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/06/the-gratification-of-giving/#comment-6688</link>
		<dc:creator>readyornot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I can&#039;t tell whether this piece is actually about teaching the concept of charity to children or using that as a device to teach adults about charity, which seems to be the point of the last paragraph.

One quibble: the accepted definition of utility is relative. Does this choice bring more benefit than its alternative would? As opposed to - this choice brings me 3 utils of satisfaction. Also, utility is also defined on individuals by their preferences. Then a measure of social utility or happiness has to find some way to aggregate over individuals. It gets complicated, as you might imagine.

As for measures of societal well-being which are not driven merely by GDP, the United Nations Development Program has a measure called the Human Development Indicator, which factors in things like environmental degradation and educational attainment. Happiness is a notoriously tricky concept, especially if you want to rely on it for poverty-reduction purposes. It is a social construct. Asking someone whether he or she is happy is received differently, depending on their upbringing, and countries tend to have very constant &quot;average happiness levels&quot; as well as constant range of lowest and highest happiness, regardless of their economic situations. Does that mean we should not try to increase economic opportunity and reduce poverty?

And finally, let&#039;s get to the heart of this article here. Which charity should you give to? This is a good question! Some people might want to give to fiscally responsible charities, the ones that don&#039;t splurge on big salaries for their CEOs or big parties. But even the most frugal charity could be doing either no good or some harm. Another way to decide is cost-effectiveness. How far will your dollar go? The organization GiveWell recommends some charities on this basis.

But the best reason to give to any charity is because its mission resonates with you, and you have been convinced that it makes some progress on that mission. I guess what I&#039;m saying is, I think it&#039;s totally OK to be swayed by a compelling story of a child or a picture of a panda or your aunt&#039;s recent cancer scare. That makes us human. It also makes you feel really double extra good about having given the money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t tell whether this piece is actually about teaching the concept of charity to children or using that as a device to teach adults about charity, which seems to be the point of the last paragraph.</p>
<p>One quibble: the accepted definition of utility is relative. Does this choice bring more benefit than its alternative would? As opposed to &#8211; this choice brings me 3 utils of satisfaction. Also, utility is also defined on individuals by their preferences. Then a measure of social utility or happiness has to find some way to aggregate over individuals. It gets complicated, as you might imagine.</p>
<p>As for measures of societal well-being which are not driven merely by GDP, the United Nations Development Program has a measure called the Human Development Indicator, which factors in things like environmental degradation and educational attainment. Happiness is a notoriously tricky concept, especially if you want to rely on it for poverty-reduction purposes. It is a social construct. Asking someone whether he or she is happy is received differently, depending on their upbringing, and countries tend to have very constant &#8220;average happiness levels&#8221; as well as constant range of lowest and highest happiness, regardless of their economic situations. Does that mean we should not try to increase economic opportunity and reduce poverty?</p>
<p>And finally, let&#8217;s get to the heart of this article here. Which charity should you give to? This is a good question! Some people might want to give to fiscally responsible charities, the ones that don&#8217;t splurge on big salaries for their CEOs or big parties. But even the most frugal charity could be doing either no good or some harm. Another way to decide is cost-effectiveness. How far will your dollar go? The organization GiveWell recommends some charities on this basis.</p>
<p>But the best reason to give to any charity is because its mission resonates with you, and you have been convinced that it makes some progress on that mission. I guess what I&#8217;m saying is, I think it&#8217;s totally OK to be swayed by a compelling story of a child or a picture of a panda or your aunt&#8217;s recent cancer scare. That makes us human. It also makes you feel really double extra good about having given the money.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/06/the-gratification-of-giving/#comment-6679</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=6009#comment-6679</guid>
		<description>@stuffisthings You are taught how to share in kindergarten, but sharing is very different than giving. Charity is not about sharing, it&#039;s about giving.

Also, he never said Bhutan was a great nation - he was just using it as an example of how utility is used (and it&#039;s a classic example for those who are not familiar with it).

Great piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@stuffisthings You are taught how to share in kindergarten, but sharing is very different than giving. Charity is not about sharing, it&#8217;s about giving.</p>
<p>Also, he never said Bhutan was a great nation &#8211; he was just using it as an example of how utility is used (and it&#8217;s a classic example for those who are not familiar with it).</p>
<p>Great piece.</p>
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		<title>By: stuffisthings</title>
		<link>http://thebillfold.com/2012/06/the-gratification-of-giving/#comment-6672</link>
		<dc:creator>stuffisthings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebillfold.com/?p=6009#comment-6672</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s hard to explain charity to children? What kindergarten did you go to? I seem to recall a lot of stuff of about sharing (also: naps).

I&#039;d also like to point out that Bhutan is a monarchy with a dysfunctional economy and a spotty human rights record where 60 percent of the people are illiterate and refugees are routinely mistreated. The &quot;GNH&quot; was a propaganda tool for the monarchy to justify making no efforts to improve the lives of their people and basically preserve them in poverty so the whole country could be a theme park for rich tourists. (When that didn&#039;t work out, they built a gigantic dam instead.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to explain charity to children? What kindergarten did you go to? I seem to recall a lot of stuff of about sharing (also: naps).</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also like to point out that Bhutan is a monarchy with a dysfunctional economy and a spotty human rights record where 60 percent of the people are illiterate and refugees are routinely mistreated. The &#8220;GNH&#8221; was a propaganda tool for the monarchy to justify making no efforts to improve the lives of their people and basically preserve them in poverty so the whole country could be a theme park for rich tourists. (When that didn&#8217;t work out, they built a gigantic dam instead.)</p>
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