Comments on: Inconsistent Laws for Jobs Licenses Makes It Difficult for Poor People to Get Jobs http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/ Everything About Money You Were Too Polite To Ask Tue, 18 Jun 2013 04:32:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: highfivesforall http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/#comment-3025 highfivesforall Tue, 15 May 2012 22:44:33 +0000 http://thebillfold.com/?p=4037#comment-3025 How many states are there, exactly? How many states are there, exactly?

]]> By: stuffisthings http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/#comment-2852 stuffisthings Mon, 14 May 2012 20:27:59 +0000 http://thebillfold.com/?p=4037#comment-2852 @pissy elliott This is why people who write about public policy should be licensed, so they know exactly how slippery they can make their slopes. @pissy elliott This is why people who write about public policy should be licensed, so they know exactly how slippery they can make their slopes.

]]> By: pissy elliott http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/#comment-2851 pissy elliott Mon, 14 May 2012 20:02:39 +0000 http://thebillfold.com/?p=4037#comment-2851 We are moving out of my statistical expertise here. I am making a fairly narrow point about buildings, and fields where there are a lot of information asymmetries between consumer and supplier. I'm not going to speak to occupations like cosmetologists, auctioneers, fortune-tellers, and other dubiously licensed practices. But I'm always skeptical when these articles come up, because they often make these very big jumps from "I wonder why state boards of cosmetology force applicants to go through years of training and fees" to "Why can't I use a fly-by-night contractor to fix my tenant's roof?" We are moving out of my statistical expertise here. I am making a fairly narrow point about buildings, and fields where there are a lot of information asymmetries between consumer and supplier. I’m not going to speak to occupations like cosmetologists, auctioneers, fortune-tellers, and other dubiously licensed practices. But I’m always skeptical when these articles come up, because they often make these very big jumps from “I wonder why state boards of cosmetology force applicants to go through years of training and fees” to “Why can’t I use a fly-by-night contractor to fix my tenant’s roof?”

]]> By: stuffisthings http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/#comment-2848 stuffisthings Mon, 14 May 2012 19:48:50 +0000 http://thebillfold.com/?p=4037#comment-2848 @pissy elliott No, I agree in principle, but it's also a fair point that if lack of licensing in these inconstantly licensed professions were dangerous, we'd be seeing evidence of that. For instance, a friend of mine is involved in child welfare issues in a Midwestern state with lax licensing for child care providers, and which also does very poorly on scores of child welfare. In that case I think you could make a strong claim for more licensing/regulation. @pissy elliott No, I agree in principle, but it’s also a fair point that if lack of licensing in these inconstantly licensed professions were dangerous, we’d be seeing evidence of that. For instance, a friend of mine is involved in child welfare issues in a Midwestern state with lax licensing for child care providers, and which also does very poorly on scores of child welfare. In that case I think you could make a strong claim for more licensing/regulation.

]]> By: pissy elliott http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/#comment-2846 pissy elliott Mon, 14 May 2012 19:30:06 +0000 http://thebillfold.com/?p=4037#comment-2846 @pissy elliott If you would like to talk about barber licensing though, please feel free to take it up with anyone else who read Yglesias from 2009-2010, because I am done with that! @pissy elliott If you would like to talk about barber licensing though, please feel free to take it up with anyone else who read Yglesias from 2009-2010, because I am done with that!

]]> By: pissy elliott http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/#comment-2845 pissy elliott Mon, 14 May 2012 19:29:05 +0000 http://thebillfold.com/?p=4037#comment-2845 @stuffisthings This is actually a fair point, and why I said "many minds." As loath as I am to give the Institute of Justice (which is pretty much a libertarian front group) any shrift, a lot of occupational licensing is just a kind of cartelization, and a way of artifically creating barriers to entry. And while I can't speak uniquely to embattled interior designers, I can say that building structures to local building codes is self-evidently important! (Sorry if this is an argumentative fallacy, but I'm on the internet and don't feel like Googling open Department of Building complaints that adversely affect the lives of people who aren't trained architects, designers, or engineers) If you are going to allow a profession to do code-dependent work on structures, I don't think it's a terrible demand to force them to show competency through licensing. @stuffisthings This is actually a fair point, and why I said “many minds.” As loath as I am to give the Institute of Justice (which is pretty much a libertarian front group) any shrift, a lot of occupational licensing is just a kind of cartelization, and a way of artifically creating barriers to entry.

And while I can’t speak uniquely to embattled interior designers, I can say that building structures to local building codes is self-evidently important! (Sorry if this is an argumentative fallacy, but I’m on the internet and don’t feel like Googling open Department of Building complaints that adversely affect the lives of people who aren’t trained architects, designers, or engineers) If you are going to allow a profession to do code-dependent work on structures, I don’t think it’s a terrible demand to force them to show competency through licensing.

]]> By: stuffisthings http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/#comment-2844 stuffisthings Mon, 14 May 2012 19:10:27 +0000 http://thebillfold.com/?p=4037#comment-2844 @pissy elliott Counterpoint: 2,190 days = 6 years. In that time you could become a fully-fledged professional engineer and be legally allowed to sign off on drawings for like, a dam overlooking a populated area, or a bridge used by millions of people each year. I think the key point is the state-by-state evidence, or lack thereof. Surely it's not a high hurdle to ask that licensing proponents show that there is actual evidence that unlicensed interior DESIGNERS are building dangerous structures that disabled people can't use? (God damn, each day as a Billfold reader is making me sound more and more libertarian, isn't it?) @pissy elliott Counterpoint: 2,190 days = 6 years. In that time you could become a fully-fledged professional engineer and be legally allowed to sign off on drawings for like, a dam overlooking a populated area, or a bridge used by millions of people each year.

I think the key point is the state-by-state evidence, or lack thereof. Surely it’s not a high hurdle to ask that licensing proponents show that there is actual evidence that unlicensed interior DESIGNERS are building dangerous structures that disabled people can’t use?

(God damn, each day as a Billfold reader is making me sound more and more libertarian, isn’t it?)

]]> By: lobsterhug http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/#comment-2841 lobsterhug Mon, 14 May 2012 18:43:27 +0000 http://thebillfold.com/?p=4037#comment-2841 Ah, so enlightening! Yes, obviously, if there is any engineering/construction, it makes sense to be licensed. Ah, so enlightening! Yes, obviously, if there is any engineering/construction, it makes sense to be licensed.

]]> By: pissy elliott http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/#comment-2838 pissy elliott Mon, 14 May 2012 18:33:15 +0000 http://thebillfold.com/?p=4037#comment-2838 @NoReally Oh man, you beat me. @NoReally Oh man, you beat me.

]]> By: pissy elliott http://thebillfold.com/2012/05/inconsistent-laws-for-jobs-licenses-makes-it-difficult-for-poor-people-to-get-jobs/#comment-2837 pissy elliott Mon, 14 May 2012 18:33:02 +0000 http://thebillfold.com/?p=4037#comment-2837 I have been following these sort of discussions on occupational licensing for a while, because Matt Yglesias made them his hobbyhorse for a long time. I am of many minds about it, but I will say this: stop using interior designers as an example of occupational licensing gone amok! Interior DESIGNERS do some kinds of light construction and contracting (knocking out walls, built-in fixtures, etc.)! Interior DECORATORS pick out swatches and help you find furniture. You probably want to train and license someone who will be knocking out your walls! Life isn't a Seven On Your Side report, and sometimes boring regulations do useful things! I have been following these sort of discussions on occupational licensing for a while, because Matt Yglesias made them his hobbyhorse for a long time. I am of many minds about it, but I will say this: stop using interior designers as an example of occupational licensing gone amok! Interior DESIGNERS do some kinds of light construction and contracting (knocking out walls, built-in fixtures, etc.)! Interior DECORATORS pick out swatches and help you find furniture. You probably want to train and license someone who will be knocking out your walls! Life isn’t a Seven On Your Side report, and sometimes boring regulations do useful things!

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